Just in case you had just stepped out of the wormhole, and have not heard of OWC (Obedient Wives Club albeit I call them COWs, short for Club Obedient Wivessss...the "s" being plural to cater for their prerogatively polygamous way of life) they are a moooooooooo-vement born from women members of Global Ikhwan, who got together for "brain" storming sessions to counter the social ill of baby discarding and divorces.
You have to listen to this bizarre discussion, broad casted on BFM , (podcast form) HERE before embarking into what I have to say thereafter..
OR, this video just came in:
First and foremost, Dr Azlina said that the women of Global Ikhwan got together for brainstorming session, based on two problems they felt they needed to contribute to solve, that be the divorce incidence that is higher than the integrity of most of our politicians today, and the problem of discarded children.
Now, can someone please show me how to connect the dots between obeying your husband to retain the institution called "marriage" with solving the problem of discarding babies? These ladies must have had a nice tapai session before commencing discussions. Isn't discarding babies a problem of couples who are not married? Didn't we solve the problem by legalizing rape (underage engaging in sex, consensual or otherwise), in order to solve this rampant sex offenders and out of wedlock child problems? Hmm..had I known that being the auta-rities in this department is a job you won't need brains, I would have applied on part time basis, but oh, I digressed.
I won't touch much on the issue of being obedient to husband in order to save the marriage from a divorce, as Marina had done a good job doing so. Basically, in Dr Azlina's mind, I gather that, in order to keep a good statistics figure of successful marriage, it's the women who have to be subservient to the husbands, to a maximum extent and succumb to a leader-follower relationship, instead of companionship as pointed out by Marina. I suspect she may have gotten that idea whilst treating her depressed patient. After all, all drugged patients seemed happy on chill pills. But are they really happy? If so, why need the drug in the first place to stay "happy" if you really are genuinely happy? Here's another question. Should a happy marriage comprise of one spouse who sacrifice her happiness in order to make a "happy marriage"? Dr Azlina may want to look into the bottled up resentment problem as a long term consequences to conditioning oneself to be happy. Hmm.. suddenly "divorce" sounds more benign.
Frankly, after listening to the whole discussion, I cannot help but smile at the thought that although Dr Azlina may not have realized it, she got screwed live on radio BFM, even when she was not in the mood to have a screw. But surely, she must be happy if not relieved with it because after all, according to her, she did not get laknat from the malaikat (angels) and the whole universe all the way to dawn which she would have as she claimed, if she had refused to be screwed :-)
Dr Farouk however, struck a note when he pointed out that "God is being dragged into discussion all the time and you are quoting the surah from the Quran that is not even there". This to me is the very core to the problem of Dr Azlina and of many Muslims today. To me, the more she spoke, and thanks to the wisdom of Marina, who cornered her many a times, hence a spontaneous outburst of the line of thinking that unveiled her weakness in the fundamental teachings of Islam, the more that I am convinced that she is the victim of again, what Dr Farouk had pointed out , "Indoctrination" whereby people keep insisting such thing is in the Quran when it is not.
Click on the Rabbit hole for more discussions....
And that is why we need to ascertain facts before disseminating them, to prevent from spreading stupidity, lies and fitnah.
[49:6] O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
We won't know a wicked person until we know, so to be safe, check your sources before forwarding the news/facts. This method is to safeguard Islam from being manipulated.
Dr Azlina, kept claiming that God said this and that in her argument but had failed to substantiate the arguments with the surah or even hadith sources, well, except for the real weird ones like that claims "if God allowed another man to prostrate to another man, it would be a wife prostrating to her husband", (this hadith sounds very erm...masculine indeed), which she did not mention the source so that we can determine whether the hadith is sahih and mutawattir (authenticity). It makes a person wonder, where did she get all that information..or more precisely, disinformation, about Muhammad saying man prostrating to another man. In the Quran;
[41:37] "Among His proofs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate before the sun, nor the moon; you shall fall prostrate before the GOD who created them, if you truly worship Him alone."
Again, what is Dr Azlina trying to say? That God was not in the clear mind in the matter of prostration or that Muhammad too liked to do the thinking for God? Oh, I forgot..it wasn't what Dr Azlina was trying to say, but Muhammad trying to say. Or is it? Besides, even if Muhammad did say that, shouldn't Muhammad be telling that God will tell us to prostrate to our mothers first, "if He decided that man should start prostrating to man?". Wouldn't that make slightly more sense to the nonsense?
This reveals that what she said was based on what that had been indoctrinated into her, more than what she had discovered for herself say for example through research and reading. This is not surprising because the Malay culture is rich with trusting people who love to hear stories that are not verified, instead of reading them. After all, "penglipur lara" (the story teller) was in the Malay custom. So is it any wonder our society comprises of clueless people? God said in
[6:116] "Wert thou to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead thee away from the way of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture: they do nothing but lie."
And the worst part is that she kept insisting that what they are selling is kosher, that it is following the Quran and Hadith, when clearly it is not if anyone care to refer to the Quran instead of taking what is thrown to us at face value. That's clearly false marketing. Dr Azlina seem to be pulling out statements like Captain Cavement would pull out some gadget out of his thick burly body hair. Occasionally she mistakenly pulled out her nostril hair and inflicted self pain with her statements.
[3:94] If any, after this, invent a lie and attribute it to Allah, they are indeed unjust wrong-doers.
What? Are we suppose to trust you just because you said your way is the Islamic way? Hello kawan, this is the information era where you can obtain almost any information from under the sun, at the palm of your hands, and the gadget can vibrate too, talk about multitasking. Just because you are clad in the Arabic attire, just minus the camel, we are no longer stupid anymore lah. Righteousness is in Islam (submission to God), not in being Arabic. A difference you may want to ponder on. This saying stupid things and attributing them to God and the Prophet has GOT TO STOP.
[3:78] There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!
It is killing the beauty of Islam and beauty is what attracts people to it's way of life, not lies and indoctrination and threats that leave humans no room to make mistakes and learn from them.
That is why in Islam there is no need for compulsion. The beauty will speak for itself, unless of course some dumb cows messes it up (pun not intended):
[2:256] Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
Initially, the COWs blame the wives that the husband go to the prostitutes. To some extent, saying that a husband will look for another woman if he's not satisfied in bed with the Mrs would be true. I have friends who refuse to even budge from the mercenary position during love making with their respective husbands. How lar. Then again, there are husbands (and wives) who don't even know that G spots existed, even a GPS (G-spot positioning system) won't be able to assist them. In the end, sex becomes a chore rather than a bond to be enjoyed between spouses.
As for men going to prostitutes. Don't beat up yourself too much on that. When a man wants to just lie there and get serviced sexually too lazy to satisfy his partner, or when he cannot do certain things with his wife, well, fellatio for instance is after all prohibited in Islam, who better to tilth than a professional tilther who can tilth him back stupid? Why do you think there is a lot of unnecessary whipping going on in the Hudud Law, even though sometimes this is not found in the Quran? For COWs to tell the Mrs to become prostitutes to their respective husbands, its like telling them to drop their IQ below freezing point, because at least the prostitutes are smart enough to charge. Seriously...what were they thinking?
Had Dr Azlina known some basics in Islam, she may have a less complicated and a more logical outlook in life, and perhaps not be so enthusiastic about obeying her husband or being a first wife to a polygamous husband. Here's why.
1. Husband and wife are companion to each other and women and men are equal to the eyes of God (4:124, 16:97, 49:13, 33:35)
2. Polygamy is meant to be weaned off as I will show you later
So Dr Azlina, please stop insisting that God said the things He did not say before you end up being blasphemous. Stop selling dumb ideas and attribute it to God. Go learn about Islam first before you spread your version of "Islam". Stop being a parrot of the Islamists. You are just a mere tool, or in your case, one of the tools...the first tool out of the 4 tools your husband is using. O..o..oo...let me guess..your husband is the screw driver and his wives are the nuts? (pun not intended).
To elaborate the gender equality in Islam; here are some surahs and Dr Azlina would have also discovered this should she had taken the trouble to do some research instead of just being a gullible sponge for weird ideas of marriage. After all, even the blind have no excuse after the creation of Braille to rely upon reading as a better choice than to just listen to people narrating tales.
"Among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other. He places in your heart love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are signs for people who think."
As for sex between husband and wife:
[2:187] " Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. "
Of course there is another ayat on women being the tilth,(2:223) my husband's favourite surah which would quote when he wanted to start....erm..tilthing me. Unfortunately for Dr Azlina, God did not say anything about whether the tilth can't deny the husband's cumming...oops ..I mean coming to her, but then I digress.
Now, back to surah 2:187, did God mention anything about men being the users and women the garments? No, both are garments to each other..so to say that if a woman is "not in the mooooooooood", then one have got to be gullible to buy the story that you would be serving Allah when you serve your husband when you are not up to it. If Allah had an actual head, He would most certainly be scratching it right now and wondered how did He got dragged in a threesome...err..threesome in thoughts of course. Hey..she said she have sex with her husband with God in her mind...don't look at me.
A leader-follower relationship, as suggested by our dear doctor, is suggestive that men and women are not equal in the eyes of God as opposed to the surahs 4:124, 16:97, 49:13, 33:35. Women!! Don't ever let anyone tell you that you are a lesser being than the men in the eyes of God!!
Ezra mentioned the surah 4:34, and yes, that was a stroke of luck for the confused doctor:
الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنْفَقُوا مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ ۚ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَاللَّاتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ ۖ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلَا تَبْغُوا عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلًا ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا
"Men are guardians ( قَوَّامُونَ) of women because God has favored some more than others and because they spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great.
I have explained this before in my previous post pertaining to the COWs, and I'll just copy and paste it below for your perusal.
Before we start, do ponder on this two surahs:
I. God wants us to use our brains of which he had created for a purpose, which has nothing to do with under utilizing it for the purpose of obtaining a better second hand value.
In [10:100] God had warned us:
"It is not for any soul to believe save by the permission of Allah. He hath cast a wrath upon those who do not reason."
2. Follow the best meaning.
[39:18] Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best (meaning) in it: those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding.
Well, bearing the two ayats in mind, here's food for thoughts. (This was what I wrote in my last article, copied, and posted):
Firstly, look at the sentence as a whole, and not a loophole like some who had managed to take advantage of this surah via translation. Then we go part by part.
"Men are guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband)."
Men are physically, for example, superior than women, so yes, I too like the idea of being "protected" by my husband, albeit we do have to realize though, through experience that protection and guardian only comes from God and just like marriage can be a false sense of security, so can our husbands.
".....and because they spend out of their wealth". So, men are made guardians partly because they spend their wealth on family. But wait.. woman have long gone out to earn a living, side by side with their male counterpart, some are better off than the husbands too. How does this bit in the surah be justified then?
You see folks, Islam is about progression and adaptation. If not, why bother taking the infidel created car to work? Why not ride a camel instead, because, technically, the act of the prophet IS the sunnah. So why not ride a camel to work...such practices saves on toll money and road tax - saving money...another sunnah...
Besides, women of today are far more intellectual (yes guys....some of us may pretend to be stupid just to get a date...) and are indeed capable of taking care of themselves, even without the help of men, as clearly portrayed by the single parents for example. Imagine if an intellectual Muslim women, a COW member is married to THIS guy here. I'm pretty sure the Islamist agenda of propagating forth via genetic multiplication (well, Islam has certainly lost it's attraction since it lost it's beauty in an abyss of hearsays that don't make sense) would be stunted if women were to obey such men :-)
Then, let's dive into the word "guardian" or in Arabic "qawwamun". To be able to explain what "guardian" or in Arabic, "qawwamun" means, we need to comprehend that this word is a plural to the word "qawwam", and the root of the key word, qawwamun is "qama" which means "to stand or to make something stand or to establish something". A related word is qa'im which means "one who stands or makes something stand".
Qawwam is an intensive form of qa'im and has a sense of continuity in the action involved. So it means one who is continuously standing over something (as, for example, a guard or caretaker) or one who is continuously making something stand, for example, maintaining a stance.
So if one were to misinterpret this particular ayat, in favor of women, just as what men love to do with the ayat to justify their wars, oppressing women, polygamous lifestyle, torturing gays and people having illegal sex or drinks....it can be misinterpreted something like this maybe? :
"Ironically, men are expected to "maintain a stand", so why are these women taking the blame of men's erm.."non-standing problem" when it's clearly men who are responsible to "maintain a stand" on their own? They are the caretaker of their own standings, so, if men cannot get.... erm....a standing ovation in bed, then maybe it is they who need to seek medical help."
Moving along.......... the function of qawwam is also understood in the Qur'an to be characterized by fairness. The word "qawwamum/qawwamina" is mentioned only three times in the quran...or Ibrahim Ali may say "tree taims" which is in 4:34, 4:135 and 5:8, ( you can check the concordance HERE) and in the last two,
4: 135 "O you who believe! Be qawwamina with fairness..."
5:8 "O you who believe! Be qawwamina for God as witnesses to fairness..."
Basically, this ayat states that a man back then were expected to hold steadfast with fairness a certain stand. So where is it that say women HAVE to "obey" their husbands??? A fair and good "leader" is open for discussion and comes up with the good ideas, and with fairness mind you, and carries on his shoulders a huge amount of responsibilies. If a wife don't agree, she has a say and not follow the "leader" , so yes, it's more of a compromising , give and take relationship rather than a "leader-follower" relationship. That is what qawwamina means...not "obey"....I think treating your wives like a dog should only strictly in the bedroom and in position only.
As for "beating" ... read what Edip Yuksel's take on men's right to "beat" their wives (?).
So Dr Azlina, you still say that "obeying" husband is a decree from God that you don't question? Don't get confused with the decree from God and the decree from manipulative men. The latter you CAN question, and definitely should.
As stated earlier, I am expected to elaborate on my statement whereby polygamy was meant to be weaned off.
Well everyone is ranting "fairness" in polygamy, many have forgotten, if not ignorant of that surah 4:3 is followed later by 4:129
[4:3] If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice
But then, the question about men being just was answered by God,in the most under cited surah, and frankly, if you are a Muslim woman, would you be surprised? Dr Azlina might be though...
[4:129] Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Ouch! Still think polygamy is sunnah? You've got to be retarded to think so after reading 4:129... Polygamy is a mistake, yes, but sunnah? Ride a camel to work..that's a sunnah. And ride only one camel ok...unless you can be just to all the four camels..
This is what I meant by "Indroctination". These poor ladies were not told that "men can never be just even though they have the ardent desire to do so". And earlier on, God said that you can marry more than one IF you can be just, and He knows you can't, it's like my mom telling me I can go to the Metallic concert IF my dad allows me to do so, when she knows darn well my father will never allow me to go to any concerts. (Ya, I know). And I don't think it is appropriate to spring out any hadith to justify polygamy after this, because to do so, is to insult God suggesting that "He doesn't know what He said", because what He said was clear. Isn't THAT a decree Dr Azlina?
Muslims should stop being gullible and check the information coming to us instead of taking it at face value. The result is ...well, the COWssss. I rest my case.
Seriously, it gives me goosebumps that a supposedly intellectual like Dr Azlina, and according to her many more Muslim fall victim to an Islamist movement such as Global Ikhwan. Again, the word "indoctrinated" comes to mind. I will probably join Global Ikhwan to learn the art of disabling the human thinking process, and use that to perhaps someday conquer the world, (muwahahahahaha....evil laughter at the background).
It's tiring just listening to people like Dr Azlina talk. After some time all I hear coming out of her mouth a mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooouthful of COWs dung...I think the dung got confused as to which end of the digestive tract it should come out from.
Let me just repeat what I wrote in my previous post....
For the women who do not reason, and adopt the non-thinking that their existence on the planet earth is solely for the purpose of serving men, satisfying men's sexual lust, and excepts the fact that men's shortcomings are solely theirs to blame, then by all means, you've made your beds, so go lie in them, looking like a prostitute, alluring with halal perfume, drooling with fresh saliva of lust, drowning in an abyss of insecurity that the inability to serve your husband may yet drive him to the nearest whore house, or worst, polygamy.......waiting, for their parochial-and-pedantic-headed husband to walk through the front door Sex-pecting you. A case of "serve who right" or "serve you right" ?? Just don't pretend that it's great to not be able to turn down sex whilst you're having a migrane attack and start preaching it to the rest of us.
Ooh...don't panic...the Rabbit Hole ends here...
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