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Sunday, 27 December 2009

Response to comment from Ocean Girl, thank you.

This post serves as a response to the comment left by Ocean Girl. It got too long and I have no choice but to post it because, the comment box found it annoyingly long.

Ocean Girl wrote;
"The Quran was not sent to us. It was sent to the Prophet.

The basic of all basics is to Obey Allah and His Messenger. I do not see anything about "spreading love". And how do we obey the Prophet if we do not know his hadith and sunnah."

Thank you for sharing your thoughts dear. My Response;

Ocean Girl, sorry dear, but I totally disagree with you. Quran was meant for all of mankind, but Muhammad was the one chosen to receive it via Jibrail, hence the term "messenger". - Nothing different from other of His messengers.


“Verily, We have sent down to you (O Muhammad) the Book for mankind in truth. So whosoever accepts the guidance, it is only for his ownself; and whosoever goes astray, he goes astray only for his (own) loss. And you (O Muhammad) are not a Wakeel (trustee or disposer of affairs, or guardian) over them”[Surah (Chapter of) al-Zumar 39:41

“Had We sent down this Qur’aan (Quran / Koran) on a mountain, you would surely have seen it humbling itself and rent asunder by the fear of Allah. Such are the parables which We put forward to mankind that they may reflect”[Surah (Chapter of) al-Hashr 58:21]

“The Messenger (Muhammad) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. (They say,) ‘We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers’ — and they say, ‘We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)’” [Surah (Chapter of) al-Baqarah 2:285

“This is a Book which We have sent down to you full of blessings that they may ponder over its verses and that men of understanding may remember.” (Saad: 29)

And before you bring up the matter that the Quran have contradictions so much so, we need the auta…sorry, authorities to figure them out for us, ponder on this;
“Do they not then consider the Qur’an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah they surely would have found therein many contradictions.” (Nisaa’: 82)

It’s to say that THERE IS NO CONTRADICTIONS IN THE QURAN.
Here are more verses to tell us, how important it is for us to read the Quran ourselves.

“And We have sent down to you the Book (the Qur’aan (Quran / Koran)) as an exposition of everything, a guidance, a mercy, and glad tidings for those who have submitted themselves [an nahl:89]


And Muhammad, like other messengers before him has the duty of distributing His words to mankind. If mankind rejects, Muhammad does not have to answer for mankind. It is mankind who have to answer for themselves.

“O Messenger (Muhammad)! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allah will protect you from mankind” [Surah (Chapter of) al-Maa'idah 5:67]

It's high time we look at the Quran ourselves instead of trusting others. Isn't it weird that with a snap of fingers we can get people to come teach us how to recite the Quran but getting a teacher to come teach us the translation to our kids is totally non conducive? Have you read the Quran yourself or made an attempt to complete reading it? It's easy except for some parts whereby, yes, we need to ask people who knows. But basically, it's easy to understand it. Problem is, we chose to recite it yet not understand the content of it, like a parrot, because we are told from small that the satan would be teaching us if we read it on our own. As a result, we put the Quran on our heads everytime we touch it, exhibit it at the highest point where it lays there majestically, albeit collecting dust, and to make up for not reading it ourselves, we all end up trusting the "people who know it all" and what do you know...look where we Muslims ended up today.

[6:116] "And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they follow but conjecture and they only lie."

Despite the many evidence for us to read, understand and practice the manual God gave us in a form of book of revelation, many had failed to do so;

“O my Lord! Verily my people deserted this Qur’an” (Furqaan: 30)

And the reason being:

“Do they not then think deeply in the Qur’aan (Quran / Koran), or are their hearts locked up (from understanding it)?” [Surah (Chapter of) al-Baqarah 2:285

Perhaps, this is because, guidance comes from God. There are people who’d get it, and there are people who may never will….
“Allah has sent down the Best of Speech, a Book, its parts resembling one another and oft-repeated. The skins of those who fear their Lord shiver when they recite it or hear it. Then their skin and their heart soften to the remembrance of Allah. That is the guidance of Allah. He guides therewith whom He wills; and whomever Allah sends astray, for him there is no guide.” (al-Zumar: 23)

You said that there is no message about spreading love in the Quran. Again, I beg to differ. You spread love when you’re kind to the orphans, your neighbours. You spread love when you help others regardless of their race, gender, beliefs because your duty is to spread love and live righteously, and judging is for god.

"Their hostility towards each other is intense. You consider them united but their hearts are scattered wide. That is because they are people who do not use their intellect," (Surat al-Hashr, 14)
The problem with us Muslims today, we practice the reverse. We are quick to judge, and we are more concern in doing less (as most of the things are haram apparently) rather than doing more.
Allah is about love, compassion amongst many of His beautiful virtues;
If you look at Christian or Buddhist movements who help others regardless of race etc, the Muslims should be ashamed of ourselves. And to cover for that shame, we avow that these movements are insincere and to convert as many into their religion, a rat race. We complain but apart from helping out only Muslims, what have we really done to serve society as a whole?
Instead, we pride ourselves in indulging in trivial matters like muhrim issues, haram inai on hands etc? Zakat? Well, are we sure zakat money is not being abused like what happened with Lembaga Tabung Haji some time back? I had my nurse coming in complaining to me (in a clinic where I do part time), that a Datin came in and purchased hundred ringgit worth of medicine, and payment was being made via Zakat money. What is that all about? NEP is a fantastic program, but what about it’s implementation? Is it Islamic? Is it Islamic to excel at the expense of suppressing others, when clearly, Islam is about serving others regardless of race, gender and whatever type of categorization the humans are fond of to create a sense of belonging.
Surah Al-Nisa':36:
"Serve God, and join not any partners with Him; and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet) and what your right hands possess : For God loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious.

God after all is ample with love;
“As for those who believe and do right actions, the All-Merciful will bestow His love on them. “(Surah Maryam, 96)

As for the rest of us; we have love for each other.
[Yusufali 30:21] And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.

18 comments:

Ocean Girl said...

And what was actually sent to msnkind? Do you know?

I give you one, no, two clues. He was sent to us as a mercy.

Do not reject Hadith and Sunnah of the Prophet. Know them well, as well as you know your Qur'an. Start your love by loving the Prophet first.

That way you don't have to listen to others and be free.

I found that you did not listen to what I said at all. It was like you already have these voices in your head.

PahNur said...

err...did i mention anywhere i don't love my own grandfather? I'm the 34 generation of his descendant via Hussain who had managed to escape massacre during the time when Muawiyah was Governor.

Did I mention anywhere I reject hadith? I did however point out that we all use our brains before reciting something that do not make sense, like that 72 virgin thingy.

My question is, why is it people are very fast to defend Hadith, word of human, and are not keen on defending the words of God. In fact, there are some occasions whereby words of humans overrides the words of god. Meaning the words of hadith takes a forefront as compared to the words of God.

Ocean Girl, what exactly are you trying to convey to me that I am apparently NOT LISTENING? The "voices in my head" is as I recited, from the Quran.

And what are the sources from that "voices in your head"? I have listen to you reciting any, not from hadith, more importantly, not from the Quran.

I am saying all this, in the spirit of agreeing to disagree. I have just justified where my thoughts came from. I would love to hear the sources of your thoughts, of which "I did not listen to".

Salam

Ocean Girl said...

I should have used the word "dismiss" instead of "reject" and I should have not added that last paragraph at all.

But that was my point, I did not see on what point where we really disagree on. To me, it appeared like you were addressing someone else.

Maybe we were actually agree to agree but it just did not come out that way.

Waalaikumussalam

Anonymous said...

Pah Nur,

Ocean Girl is like a empty shell you find on the sea shore. When you put it near your ear it is full of sound but it is actually kosong inside.

Ocean Girl wants to reject the Quran. She talks about hadith but she cannot and will also refuse to quote even one ayat of the Quran. People who reject the Quran also reject the Rasulullah. They are not muslim. Ocean Girl rejects the Quran. That is why she cannot quote even one ayat from the Quran. When you do not know even one ayat of the Quran, that means you reject the Quran.

The Quran says that the ayat of the Quran represent the speech of the Rasul (Surah 69). Innahu la qaulu rasulun kareem : sesungguhnya Al Quran ini adalah percakapan seorang Rasul yang mulia.

The Quran is the speech of the Rasul. So if you love the Rasul, then you must learn to love what he taught which is the Quran.

Because she rejects the Quran, Ocean Girl does not know that the Quran is also a hadeeth.

Allaahu nazzala ahsana al hadeeth kitaaban mutashaabihan (39:23)

maksudnya "Allah telah menurunkan al hadeeth yang paling baik, dalam bentuk sebuah Kitab yang berulang . . ."

So the Quran is a hadeeth, the bst hadeeth or hadeeth yang paling baik.

But Ocean Girl must be clear which hadeeth she refers to? Does she accept the hadeeth of the Shiah? In Malaysia Shiah is ajaran sesat. But the Shiah say they are also Muslim. In fact the Shiah and the Sunnah Wal Jamaah naik haji at the same time in Mekah. They also pray beside each other. The Shiah food is considered halal. You can also kahwin Shiah. But the Shiah and Sunni also kill each other. Why? Because they do not believe in each other's hadeeth.

So Ocean Girl must answer this question : when you say the Shiah or Sunnah is sesat, is it because you love the Prophet or is it becaue you believe in different hadith which both of them claim is from the Prophet?

So whose hadith is really correct?

Does Ocean Girl believe the hadith that the moon split in two and one half fell down behind the house of Saidina Ali? I dont know if this is a Suni or Shiah hadeeth.


Does Ocean Girl believe in the hadeeth that "bad luck lies in a black dog and a woman?" (Bukhari).

Ocean Girl the Quran is the speech (qaulu) of the Rasul. If you reject the Quran you are rejecting the Rasul. You are not a Muslim.


The hadeeth of Bukhari is not even written by Bukhari. It is written by other people, the students and supporters of Bukhari who then tell us that this is from Bukhari.



The same method applies to the hadeeth of the shiahs.


My question is why dont you acept the hadeeth of the Shiahs? They also say they love the Prophet.

Anonymous said...

p.s. PahNur, lepas ni Ocean Girl akan lari lintang pukang. They usually do that. Tunjuk sikit saja ayat Quran, dia lari terjun dalam laut. Ocean Girl kan?

Jahamy said...

Are you rejecting the Prophet if you reject lies attributed to him?

Ocean Girl,

I totally agree that to aspire to be a Muslim, one can take guidance primarily from the Quran and secondarily from the Sunnah of the prophet and thirdly, from the signs of God.

The Quran is in front of you and you can take all the steps necessary to verify whether the copy of the Quran that you have before you is authentic or not. This is easily done by comparing copies from various countries. Then, if you are like me and would like to explore whether the Quran is indeed the "word of God" and not that of human creation, you can also do it - though it takes much of your time, effort and thinking. My research has convinced me that it is indeed not the work of any mortal. For me, there are “no issues” as far as the Quran is concerned - It is from the Creator.

Now the Sunnah. The Sunnah is often understood as the conduct of the Prophet by the ulema of Hadith. To the ulema of hadith, “sunnah” refers to all that is narrated from the prophet, his acts, his sayings, whatever he has tacitly approved plus all the reports of his physical attributes and characters. Today, this “Sunnah” is in a written from often called the Hadith (on hadith later). In the Quran, the word “ Sunnah” has been used on 16 occasions and it has been used to imply an established practice or course of conduct.

Example (1): Quran 15:13: “That they should not believe in the (Message); but the ways (Sunna) of the ancients have passed away”.

Example (2): Quran 33:38 “There can be no difficulty to the Prophet in what Allah has indicated to him as a duty. It was the practice of Allah (sunnata Allahi ) amongst those of old that have passed away. And the command of Allah is a decree determined”.

Example (3): Quran 35:43 “On account of their arrogance in the land and their plotting of Evil, but the plotting of Evil will hem in only the authors thereof. Now are they but looking for the way the ancients (sunnata alawwaleena) were dealt with? But no change wilt thou find in Allah.s way (lisunnati Allahi) (of dealing): no turning off wilt thou find in Allah.s way (lisunnati Allahi) (of dealing)”.

Quran 35:43 is interesting that the word “sunna” in the first instance refers to the “practice/ways of the ancients” while in the second and third instance it refers to the “practice/ways of Allah”.

However, in all the instances the word “Sunnah” is used in the Quran, there is not a single instance where it is used in relation to the Prophet. In the Quran, however, you do have Allah referring to the Prophet as an excellent example of conduct in surah 33 verse 21 as follows:

“Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example (oswatun hasanatun) for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much”.

In recorded literature, therefore, it is the ulema of Hadith that have linked this word to the Prophet, hence the word “Sunnah Rasul”. According to Professor Dr Hashim Kamali, “There is evidence to suggest that the Sunnah of the Prophet was introduced into the legal theory by the jurists of Iraq towards the end of the first century”. (Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence, page 45). This means therefore, that you can either believe the jurists wholeheartedly that everything they allege to be the sunnah of the prophet is indeed the sunnah of the prophet or you may want to take personal responsibility by verifying the same. This is an important decision to make if indeed you truly believe in Allah’s words in the Quran in surah 6 verse 94:

“And certainly you have come to Us alone as We created you at first, and you have left behind your backs the things which We gave you, and We do not see with you your intercessors about whom you asserted that they were (Allah's) associates in respect to you; certainly the ties between you are now cut off and what you asserted is gone from you”.

jahamy said...

Many like to use the jurists or ulemas as their intercessors in determining their faith in Allah with the excuse that the jurists are experts and they themselves are not. Of course, the role of some jurists in assisting research is commendable and helpful. We may draw useful information and knowledge from their work. However, this is not the same as being negligent or lazy or apathetic by delegating our responsibility in shaping our faith based on grounds that we are personally convinced to others. However, it is also a fact that the majority prefer to blindly believe based on conjectures and lies as in Quran 6:116

“And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they follow but conjecture and they only lie”.

And there are quite a number who would rather follow what their families have taught them then to reflect and examine the Quran for themselves as in Quran 7:70:

“They said: Have you come to us that we may serve Allah alone and give up what our fathers used to serve? Then bring to us what you threaten us with, if you are of the truthful ones”.

Now the “hadith”. Ulemas have often used the word “hadith” and “Sunnah” interchangeably. Hadith literally means a narrative, communication or news consisting of factual account of an event. The word “hadith” occurs in the Quran 23 times and not once does it refer, in the technical sense, to the exclusive sayings of the Prophet. On the other hand, the Quran has referred to itself as the “ahanal hadees” in Quran 39:23 as follows:

“Allah has revealed the most beautiful Message (ahsana alhadeethi) in the form of a Book conformable in its various parts, repeating, whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins and their hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides with it whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him”.

In fact, the Quran goes further to challenge human beings as to “which other hadees” after the narrations in the Quran will they believe in?

Quran 77:50 “Then what message (hadeethin), after that, will they believe in?”

Today, for all practical purposes, when you speak of hadith literature in the Sunni world, you are referring to what is known as the Al-Sihah al-Sittah" translated literarily to mean "The Six Authentic", even though they are not all considered authentic (sahih), except for the first two collections. (The Shias have their own collections of hadith).

Jahamy said...

Sunni Muslims view the Six major Hadith collections as their most important. They are, in order of authenticity:

1. Sahih Bukhari, collected by Imam Bukhari (d. 870), includes 7275 hadiths
2. Sahih Muslim, collected by Muslim b. al-Hajjaj (d. 875), includes 9200
3. Sunan al-Sughra, collected by al-Nasa'i (d. 915)
4. Sunan Abi Da'ud, collected by Abu Da'ud (d. 888)
5. Sunan al-Tirmidhi, collected by al-Tirmidhi (d. 892)
6. Sometimes referred to as Al-Muwatta, collected by Imam Malik (d. 796) and sometimes, Sunan Ibn Majah, collected by Ibnu Majah (d. 886). Some have even considered Sunan al-Darami to be the sixth.

The first two are referred to as the Two Sahihs as an indication of their authenticity. Combined the Two Sahihs contain approximately seven thousand hadith without repetition according to Ibn Hajar.

All these hadiths collections were said to be complied some 150 to 200 years after the passing away of the Prophet. It is also interesting to note that the Muwatta of Imam Malik contains 1,720 hadiths out of which 822 are attributed to the Prophet while the rest are attributed to the companions, successors and others (Prof Dr Hashim Kamali, Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence, page 48).

I shall not discuss here the hadith collections of the Shias as Malaysians are primarily Sunnis.

Hadith “science” is complex. There are many hadiths that have been forged in the name of the Prophet and many more that are considered weak or daif as to its authenticity. There numerous classification of the authenticity of a hadith. For the active and sincere believer, I would suggest that you check on the authenticity of a hadith before you negligently attribute it to the Prophet. Sincerity should not be confused with laziness or apathy or blind faith.

If anyone quotes a hadith or attributes it to the Prophet, ask for its reference so that you can verify it for yourself. Do not go around accusing that if someone rejects a particular hadith, he must therefore be rejecting the Prophet. (It will also help if you self examine whether you have a solid basis for your own views.) If this is so then, you will be accusing scholars like Imam Bukhari and Muslim who have rejected many hadiths on grounds that it is forged and where it unverifiable according to their standards. The fact is: we are required to reject lies attributed to our Prophet.

Peace!

Planet of the Monyets said...

interesting. but i am clueless

PahNur said...

Dear Ocean Girl.

You wrote;
“Do not reject Hadith and Sunnah of the Prophet. Know them well, as well as you know your Qur'an. Start your love by loving the Prophet first.
That way you don't have to listen to others and be free.”

“That you don’t have to listen to others and be free”, now that I can agree with, BUT my “others” include all form of human beings that are not mandated by god. Should he had mandated them, I’m sure He would have said it, and what He said IS the Quran. So, basically, if it is not mentioned in the Quran, who He had mandated, therefore, we can listen to them and ponder, but their words are not to be taken seriously should they contradict the words of god. Basically, the word of messenger are those mandated by God. But like Anon had pointed out in his brilliant comment, the word of the rasul IS the words of God, hence the Quran, which, IS the greatest “hadith”

[Yusufali 69:39] And what ye see not,
[Yusufali 69:40] That this is verily the word of an honoured messenger;
[Yusufali 69:41] It is not the word of a poet: little it is ye believe!
[Yusufali 69:42] Nor is it the word of a soothsayer: little admonition it is ye receive.
[Yusufali 69:43] (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.
[Yusufali 69:44] And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name,
[Yusufali 69:45] We should certainly seize him by his right hand,
[Yusufali 69:46] And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart:
[Yusufali 69:47] Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).

You are right in a way that, when we do not listen to others, we will be free. Free in the minds, and free to think, something that is very much encouraged by god;

Surah al-Ghashiyah verses 17 to 20, God says to the effect: "Do they not look at the camels, how they are made? And at the sky, how it is raised high? And at the mountains, how they are fixed firm? And at the earth, how it is spread out?"

I really appreciate you saying your thoughts out, and even if we agree or disagree with that, it’s alright really. I have made a resolution to myself that I will try to make this world a better place, at least through my writings and if it boggled minds, then I feel that I have done a little, if not a lot. But to change the world, we need to learn to free our minds and TO THINK.

PahNur said...

Here are some issues that perhaps we CAN agree on:

1. That Islam today is a “failed religion”. When two Islamic countries, both submitting to the same God, calls each other Kafir and go to war killing innocent civilians, arms and expertise for doing so was sponsored by non other than the Zionist, then it is safe to call it a failed religion. I’m talking about Iran Iraq war and if I’m a Zionist, I’d ROFLOL (roll onto floor laughing out loud), on the floor probably made of gold from the huge amount of profit I made from selling the arms to both sides.

When young promising Muslims chose not to enlighten themselves with the intelligence to take on the enemy, instead chose to blast themselves into pieces and call it “jihad” when all they killed were innocent civilians who so happen to just not be Islam, although they too were submitters to God, (unable to differentiate between “jews” and “Zionists”, obviously if you’re not that smart), hoping that what awaits them, from killing innocent people, is the promised 72 virgins in heaven. We curse the Zionist for causing havoc on earth for a land they claimed promised by God, yet we kill innocent people for not land, but virgins, waiting in heaven. When we witness such myopic act, it is safe to say that Islam is a failed religion.

When we witness the very reason God sent religion to mankind; that is to abolish destruction on earth, the killings of innocent people, racism, oppression especially to women, had been neither been maintained, if not gotten worst, and that embracing “religion” had not make man less pagan then the day he received the Book of Revelation, then it is safe to call it a failed religion.



2. That Islam today is being hijacked from us as an individual. We have now become a society who are more concern in doing less, rather than doing something to make ourselves, and our surroundings achieve betterment. # surah..
This is ironic because Islam means “submission” to God. How can one say that he/she had submitted to God, when they do not pay attention to and to some point sidetrack His words (the Quran) especially when He said that his book is complete and He had left omitted nothing out of it? (….). It’s like ignoring what our moms are telling us, and we all know moms wants what is best for their children, same with God and His Rububiyat.

PahNur said...

This is because, at some point, we have stopped researching Islam ourselves, contented with giving that job to others whom we delegate authority, taking for granted and trusting that they will do a good and sincere job. We are told that we need them to tell us how to “submit” to God. Unfortunately, they too are human and we all know not many humans can handle so much power without abusing it.

We have to remember, that when we die, these same people can’t answer for us in the hereafter, except for a few; and I doubt any of “them” took any covenant with God;

“They will have no power of any intercession except him who has taken a covenant from the Rahman”. (19:87)

, so WHY SHOULD WE TRUST THEM WITH OUR AFTERLIVES? What I’m trying to convey here is, we should know Islam through a direct approach to God Himself, as we and we alone as individuals will face Him to answer for our deeds here on earth. What better way to know Islam than going straight to His words, His Manual, the Quran? Should one chooses to listen to what is being said in the Hadiths, and if it coincides with what God had said in the Quran, then go ahead, but don’t force others to do so. You cannot force others to believe as “there is no compulsion in religion”.
[2:256]Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand- hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things.


We are insulting God by saying His words are not enough when He had already said it loud and clear, even an imbecile can understand the simple language, “nothing we have omitted from this book”. If we cannot find it to be complete, then perhaps we should back track and find out at what point had it gone wrong? Check the sources. The translation of the Quran to non Arabic languages perhaps? It is possible and to say it is not possible for humans to tamper with Quran translation is like saying humans do not err and that they do not have personal agendas. If that is so, trust me, hell would cease to exist.

Think about this; The Islamic Clerks are the ones who issue out death sentences based on human words, example being Salman Rushdie’s case. Is there any ONE single verse in the Quran, meaning death sentence issued by God, unless in for justice, eye for an eye? That too, He added that forgiveness is better.


Al Maidah 45

"We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) wrong-doers."

PahNur said...

Anon and jahamy, brilliant comment and i learn a lot from them, thank you!!

Planet of the monyets, don't worry, there are many Muslims out there who are more confused than even the monyets....

hazriq said...

i am amazed at these productive discussion going on in here. Very matured indeed.

I think the take home message is for the muslims to change our mode in islam. We need to hijack (using Pah Nur's words here) thinking from the authorities and start doing it ourselves instead of trusting them. Look what is happening when we did in fact trusted them all this while.

Ocean Girl, I think i can relate to your apprehensiveness in regards to majority here "rejecting hadiths". After all, what we learn in Islam until today, is not what we seek as knowledge, but what was shoved into our brains via the education system, and we all know that that system is designed to just give enough education for the public, but not enough for them to be able to think for themselves, a very dangerous thing for the authorities. Most of Muslims are muslims today, not by choice, but by chance, basically genetically passed down from our forefathers. Same result, just different jalan kerja...I think this must change and Muslims should take that journey of rediscovering islam themselves.

THINKING therefore is MANDATORY if we want to face our god in the hereafter, confidently...the reason why Muslims nowadays are too lazy to think, is that we are told that THINKING will get us into hell. Terror is of course, as anyone will know, the tool for governance, including governance of Islam. In truth, there is no need for governance in islam as god had left the most profoundly sane and brilliant "manual" for us to get by here on earth

Anon and jahamy, interesting insight indeed. Anon, with such brilliant remark, why do you insist in staying anon? You should take claim of this brilliant comment. Can you at least invent a name, so that the next time you comment , i will know which anon is impressing me :)

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