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Monday, 23 February 2009

In response to a comment

I wrote a response note to a comment on my post made by a.k satsangi, click HERE to view his comment.Incidentally I found that the same comment that was left HERE , and, not to be mistaken for Prof. P. S. Satsangi, Chairman,Advisory Committee on Education, Dayalbagh Educational Institutions, Agra and Founder President of the SSI and a pioneer in System Engineering and spiritual leader and Chief Mentor of Radhasoami Faith. My response comment just became too long and I thought I may as well post it for the benefit of readers.

Firstly, I would like to thank A.K.Satsangi for sharing with us, his thoughts. I have though, some thoughts of my own, that may not agree with him, but I think it's healthy that we can agree to disagree, and in doing so broaden our minds.

In regards to his comment; “Gravitation Force is the cause of manifestation of the creation.”, I appreciate the detailed explanation of the properties of gravity and so forth, but it would be good if one can answer to as how did gravitation came about in the first place? Who created gravity? As a matter of fact, no one, not even the scientists have managed to answer this, (and a lot more questions too, if I may add).

Newton also admitted that he did not have any proper idea about the cause of gravity-

"Hitherto, we have explained the phenomena of the heavens and of our sea by the power of gravity, but have not yet assigned the cause of this power. This is certain, that it must proceed from a cause that penetrates of its force; that operates not according to the quantity of the surfaces of the particles upon which it acts ( as mechanical cause used to do) but according to the quantity of the solid matter which they contain, and propagates its virtue on all sides to immense distances, decreasing always in the duplicate portion of the distances……Hitherto, I have not been able to discover the cause of those properties of gravity from the phenomena, and I frame no hypothesis"
Principia Mathemetica Book 3, Section 4 Reading 6


Then there's Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington, in The Nature of the Physical World, who said,

“ The law that entropy always increases – the second law of thermodynamics – holds, I think, the supreme position among the laws of Nature. If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equation – then so much the worse for Maxwell's equations. It is found to be contradicted by observation – well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics, I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation".

So which one is more superior law of nature? Gravitational law or the second law of thermodynamics?

Again, in regards to your comment; “This is the only Truth which can be verified scientifically and can be termed as ‘higher theory for everything’.”

Scientists have at least agreed on one thing, that hitherto, the "Higher theory for everything" is not being able to be proven scientifically as the search for a unifying theory was interrupted by the discovery of the strong and weak nuclear forces, which could not be subsumed into either gravity or electromagnetism. A further hurdle was the acceptance that quantum mechanics had to be incorporated from the start, rather than emerging as a consequence of a deterministic unified theory, as Einstein had hoped.

Gravity and electromagnetism could always peacefully coexist as entries in a list of Newtonian forces, but for many years it seemed that gravity could not even be incorporated into the quantum framework, let alone unified with the other fundamental forces. For this reason, work on unification for much of the twentieth century, focused on understanding the three "quantum" forces: electromagnetism and the weak and strong forces.

Gödel’s theorem implies that pure mathematics is inexhaustible. No matter how many problems we solve, there will always be other problems that cannot be solved within the existing rules. Because of Gödel's theorem, physics is inexhaustible too. The laws of physics are a finite set of rules, and include the rules for doing mathematics, so that Gödel's theorem applies to them.

A number of scientists claim that Gödel's incompleteness theorem proves that any attempt to construct a TOE (Theory of Everything) is bound to fail. Gödel's theorem, informally stated, asserts that any sufficiently complex mathematical theory that has a finite description is either inconsistent or incomplete. In his 1966 book The Relevance of Physics, Stanley Jaki pointed out that, because any "theory of everything" will certainly be a consistent non-trivial mathematical theory, it must be incomplete. He claims that this dooms searches for a deterministic theory of everything.

Stephan Hawkings
was originally a believer in the Theory of Everything but, after considering Gödel's Theorem, concluded that one was not obtainable.

What I'm trying to point out is that, science is an ever changing subject, unlike mathematics. Today's theories, hypothesis, and perhaps even Laws, may be what they are one day, and become rubbish the next. But this should not stop us from seeking the truth. Because failure comes from sitting around not doing anything at all.

Hawkings may be right, or maybe wrong, but one thing he said stands true,

“We run around in circles and suppose, when the truth sits in the middle and knows”.

So what is the truth then? The truth lies in God's words....

Surah An Nur Ayat 35
24:35 "God is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a concave mirror within a lamp, the lamp is within a glass, the glass is like a radiant planet, which is lit from a blessed olive tree that is neither of the east nor of the west, its oil nearly radiates light even if not touched by fire. Light upon light. God guides to His light those whom He pleases. God sets forth parables for mankind; God is aware of all things."

Footnote: This example highlights some of the main characteristics of the Quran. God is the source of enlightenment (light). The Quran radiates God's message (lamp). Though it is protected with a mathematical code, it has a transparent language (glass), reflecting a small portion of divine knowledge (radiant planet). Its message is universal; not limited to any language, race, or geography (neither of the east nor of the west). Those with open eyes may get its message even without showing much effort (gives off light even if not touched by fire). It has meaning inside meaning, message inside message (light upon light). Receiving its message is a blessing and its teacher is God Himself (God guides whomever/whoever wish(es) to His light). The word nur (light), in the normative case, occurs 33 times and is never used in plural from in the Quran, while its antonym is always used in its plural form, zulumat (darknesses), in 23 occurrences, and never in singular form. This implies singularity of the source of truth, which is God, and diversity of the sources of falsehood, which could be Satan, polytheist clergymen, ignorance, peer pressure, wrong choices, acquired weaknesses and addictions, etc. According to the Bible, God created the light first (Genesis 1:3). Light is also used as a metaphor for divine enlightenment or instruction (Psalms 119:105; Isaiah 8:20; Matthew 4:16; Matthew 5:16; John 5:35). God is described as "the Father of lights" (James 1:17). The Bible and its appendices use the light metaphor for many creatures too, such as John the Baptist (John 5:35), Jesus (Luke 2:32; John 1:7- 9), his disciples, (Matthew 5:14), and angels (2 Corinthians 11:14).

and in Baqarah;
[2:255]"Allah! There is no god but He, the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory). "

Who or what is God? That is like asking an ant how an elephant looks like.............

Last but not least, I can't help but wonder regarding his statement; “Gravitation Force is the Ultimate Creator, “, did he meant Ultimate Creator, as in God, or the tool God used to create? If it is the former, than I have problems understanding the presence of God in “Zero Gravity” or "when there is less gravitation" (since 'zero gravity' itself is non existent) . Does it mean less presence of God?
...Click here to find out how deep the rabbit hole goes.....

4 comments:

a.k.satsangi said...

Pah Nur, you have raised couple of quesions and doubts. All of them are quite genuine. I start with your last question ‘did he mean Ultimate Creator, as in God, or the tool God used to create ? ‘ I must congratulate you for an excellent question indeed, ‘Gravitation Force is the Ultimate Creator’, I wrote this paper in 2006 followed by ‘In Scientific Terminology Source of Gravitational Wave is God’ in 2007. I agree that Ultimate Creator is not God itself. There is some difference, although at very subtle level. God is the Reservoir of whole Cosmos even then God does not involve Himself directly in the Creational Process. God has completed the process of Cosmic Evolution through Prime Spiritual Current which may be considered in scientific terminology as Gravitational Force Current. This is the Original Fundamental Force. All other forces including the other three Fundamental Forces have their origin in Gravitational Force Current, when It descend down in lower spheres of creation these forces appeared. All these forces disappear again in Gravitational Force when they ascend up and become one force known as Quantum Gravity in Modern Science. It is believed that Quantum Gravity dominated during Planck Era. Rest is next.

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi

a.k.satsangi said...

Gravitation Force is the Ultimate Creator, this paper I presented at the 1st Int. Conf. on Revival of Traditional Yoga, held at The Lonavla Yoga Institute (India), Lonavla, Pune in 2006. The Abstract of this paper is given below:

The Universe includes everything that exists. In the Universe there are billions and billions of stars. These stars are distributed in the space in huge clusters. They are held together by gravitation and are known as galaxies. Sun is also a star. Various members of the solar system are bound to it by gravitation force. Gravitation force is the ultimate cause of birth and death of galaxy, star and planets etc. Gravitation can be considered as the cause of various forms of animate and inanimate existence. Human form is superior to all other forms. Withdrawal of gravitational wave from some plane of action is called the death of that form. It can be assumed that gravitation force is ultimate creator. Source of it is 'God'. Gravitational Field is the supreme soul (consciousness) and its innumerable points of action may be called as individual soul (consciousness). It acts through body and mind. Body is physical entity. Mind can be defined as the function of autonomic nervous system. Electromagnetic waves are its agents through which it works. This can be realized through the practice of meditation and yoga under qualified meditation instruction. This can remove misunderstanding between science and religion and amongst various religions. This is the gist of all religious teachings - past, present and future.

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi

a.k.satsangi said...

Law of nature, no doubt, is superior to all other laws. Mathematics is also a language. No matter which language we use, we describe everything convincingly and logically. Science, in fact, is logical coherence. Knowledge comes through various channels. Three important are:

(i) Knowledge through perception
(ii) Knowledge through intuition
(iii)Knowledge through realisation

It makes hardly any difference which way knowledge is coming. However, it should be verifiable or logically understood. Stephen Hawking may or may not believe in the Theory of Everything. But if we believe that the whole Cosmos has originated from ONE BEING i.e. GOD then it is logical to believe that Theory of Everything exists.

A.K.Satsangi said...

Radhasoami Faith View of Modus Operandi of Creation of Universe

Stephen Hawking writes in The Grand Design, “It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the Universe going.” Hawking said the Big Bang was merely the consequence of the law of gravity. In A Brief History of Time, Hawking had suggested that the idea of God or a divine being was not necessarily incompatible with a scientific understanding of the Universe.
Although Hawking is very close to Truth yet he is not perfect in his views while discarding the role of divine being. I consider the role of eternal gravity uppermost but I strongly differ with Hawking on the role of divine being. I consider Divine Ordainment is the cause of Creation of Universe.
Now I give Radhasoami Faith view of Creation Theory. In Sar Bachan (Poetry) composed by His Holiness Soamiji Maharaj the August Founder of Radhasoami Faith the details of creation and dissolution has been described very scientifically. It is written in Jeth Mahina (name of Hindi moth) in this Holy Book: Only He Himself (Supreme Father)and none else was there. There issued forth a great current of spirituality, love and grace (In scientific terminology we may call this current as gravitational wave). This is called His Mauj (Divine Ordainment). This was the first manifestation of Supreme Being. This Divine Ordainment brought into being three regions, viz., Agam, Alakh, and Satnam of eternal bliss. Then a current emerged with a powerful sound. It brought forth the creation of seven Surats or currents of various shades and colours (in scientific terminology we may call it electromagnetic waves). Here the true Jaman or coagulant was given (in scientific terminology this coagulant may be called as weak nuclear force and strong nuclear force). Surats, among themselves, brought the creation into being.
These currents descended down further and brought the whole universe/multi verse into being i.e. black holes, galaxies etc. were born.
I would like to add further that sound energy and gravitational force current are non polar entity and electromagnetic force is bi-polar. Hence spiritual polarization, if occurred, is occurred in the region of Sat Lok and region below to it only.